The Server

We really need to do something new with the server because its really been kind of dead lately. I say we do a new style with a few plugins, just the basics, (Empires/Clans?) Not sure yet. Definitely need more people if we do clans, newcomers and we should just go no whitelist and be pretty strict on griefing (if it happens,) but thats not important, this isn't a finalized plan yet, just an idea. Let me know what you think because Ludi says we need the input of all of you before we act on it, (which we really should.) let me know how you feel about it. Please feel free to either vote on the poll or reply with your own ideas and stuff, but we haven't acted on it and I really want to get back to playing on yoshicraft again.

a restart on vanilla will be the exact same as we have now, so that prolly isnt the best of ideas.

Yeah I am mostly pushing the clans thing and I need the approval of all of you guys in order for Ludi to actually put it into effect so we can all play on it

I agree vanilla would be hella stank and pretty boring after 2 days

ferentinofighterI vote no, mostly cause ive put A LOT of time into this server, and I like it. Also, I wouldnt be willing to put the same amount of effort into a new one, especially if we have a complete item/skill reset. You guys say we dont have a lot of people on, but think of the timing. With school coming to a close, I wouldnt be surprised if people are busy with exams or other school stuff. 

I think we should try a little harder at recruitment. We have that whitelist, so no new players are joining, and the majority of our veterans may not even know the server is back up (or are too busy, as I have said). We could try to take down the whitelist, or do a soft-opening type public thing. Nothing too major, just let more ppl join.

If that doesnt work, then my other idea is to wait for summer to be in swing and school over. That way, we know if people are really busy, or just dont wanna get on. If they dont wanna get on, then we can try a new map. At that point, we all have more time for the new map since its summer. See what i mean?

All in all, I rlly was hoping we keep this map, and I dont wanna give up that easily. Just try some different things, and see what happens. Some may even be waiting for the next update with horses and shiz, so who rlly knows?

Oh, and Mafia also says no. He has put soooooo much time into the base, and he would be rlly sad if it gets destroyed. And that is all 





That is copy and pasted straight from when we were deciding on whether or not we would restart the server. So, I said maybe people are too busy, or some other problem not concerning the server. From what ive seen, thats correct. We changed, but still no one got on. So, I'm pretty much saying we could roll the dice, create a great fucking server thats beautiful and awesome, but still no one will get on. Doesnt matter how many times we fucking restart, no one is gonna join. We are too private. Want things to get kick started? Let new ppl join. The majority of our current players are older, and naturally don't have time to do as much. We need younger ppl, who have time. How old were we when the server was 'amazing?' So, think about that.

 I'm actually kinda pissed, cause I said wait until summer gets into full swing. Then we can determine if we need a restart, then we can see if its ppl that are too busy, or there is something wrong with the map. But no, we all got hyped about the new snapshot, got impatient, and threw out what i thought was an amazing goddamn map, just to have the new one be no more than a map that looks like what my 9 year old brother would make in his single player. 

Here is my proposal: Bring back the last map. You can erase items, erase stats, whatever floats your boat, and open it to the public. Publish it, advertise, w/e. Let ppl come in (Since its a map we are reusing, we wont care if it gets griefed to shit) and monitor them. Add a couple extra mods to keep an eye out. Those who break the rules, we ban. Those who dont, however, we can include in the making of a brand new map. Or, someone among ourselves can build a fucking badass map on their own, send it to ludi, and while we are recruiting new ppl, we work on it together. That way, when we get a substantial number of newcomers, we start with this new map, and there is less of a chance we lose ppl in the transition. Also, these ppl who join early can start at a higher rank in the clans/empires/whatever the fuck we are doing now. 

Honestly, this is the best idea on the table. Only cause its the only idea on the table. If you care, and you want this server to actually stick around, post suggestions or other ideas. MAKE A FUCKING EFFORT TO SHOW YOU STILL WANT THIS SERVER UP. If not, then we might as well shut it down

Dang Feren, I actually really like that idea, even if we only open the server at the old map for a few weeks to see who will be the closer members of the community who won't grief. The newcomers would be great to see and in addition a new mix of people to interact with and have clans with and such, after all thats what did lead to our clan age (PHZ, BoM, NR, Antipax) and thats how I found the server, I say thats a great idea if we just bring the old map back for a while just to see how many cool newcomers we accumulate, since we are so small of a community. I do agree with you feren, and I hope the others do see your point so Ludi can act on it because I really don't see much other choice, because I just don't play because there are so few people active anymore.

It is true what you say about school, and also with school we have been too busy ourselves to really get the server in motion.  We will say next week we will go public, then we never do, and we just keep pushing the date forwards weeks at a time. When school is done for all of us (last week for me) then everyone should have enough time to actually act on our plans, and do something. Going back to the old map would be great, but I find when we are already so far along, new people wont want to stay because they are so far behind everyone else. 

A big problem we have is that no one will ever agree on anything. Some people want pvp, some dont, some want old map, some dont. Some want clans, some want vanilla, some want etc. etc. The list will go on forever. Since there is no way to please anyone, some people are just going to have to suck it up. That is directed to everyone.

Regardless of what happens, there needs to be a set of written rules that are simple for people to understand, and more importantly, easy for me to lay judgement upon.

I personally think stealing should be removed with lwc and pvp should only be allowed in certain areas or times. Thats just my opinion. I bet we'll have hardly any arguements or conflicts of interest if that happens

I do agree with the fact that the newcomers will feel behind, keep in mind we are just reusing the old map to find new people. It wont be permanent, just sort of a test to see which really wanna stay, and which dont. The playing field will be leveled when we switch over to a new map after we determine we have enough new players. The reason we use the old map is 
1) We would have something interesting and viable to advertise, and
2) Since its an old map, we wont care if it gets griefed since we are done with it and only reusing it

To balance, I feel we need different worlds/portals, the same as the red/blue empire. In the red/blue, you will remember we had different worlds for each empire, as well as a lawless type place where people would be allowed to roam free and do whatever the fuck they want. That way, people can loot and steal and fight, while those who wish not to are safe in their own world. We dont even have to have separate worlds, just set boundaries. We can incorporate Ludi's idea of a close-knit community. Within, i dunno, a fucking wall or glass dome, everyone who wants to go without pvp will be safe, and no hostile mobs would spawn. Outside this barrier people are allowed to fight and grief and whatever the hell they wanna do, but also have to contend with very difficult mobs.

Going with this barrier idea, or separate worlds, we can still use the mcmmo skill stuff. Those who live outside the "safe zone" can have access to these skills, thus giving them some kind of incentive to live in a dangerous and hazardous place. Those who live in the "safe zone" however, do not have access to them, and so cannot have a type of advantage over the others.

You say we have problems with balance, but the majority of them can be solved. I envision a giant, city-like place, with giant buildings and structures, surrounded by a dead looking desert/waste looking environment. This would appeal both to the peaceful player and those looking for pvp. As for the player who likes pvp, but not the harshness of the wild area, I propose a mod Ludi can make, or download from somewhere else (cause ive seen it elsewhere before). In this mod, you simply right click a sign with different mobs on them (zombie, skeleton, creeper, etc.). You then select the amount (5, 10, 15, 50 etc.). Then you select the difficulty (easy, medium, hard, brutal, etc.). Then poof, you are teleported into an arena surrounded by these mobs. Succeed, and you gain rewards. What kind? I dont give a fuck. Some kind of incentive. Its just a way to please the not-so-hardcore pvp-er. So yea, our balancing problems can be fixed, we just gotta think about em.

I dont like the idea of the mob spawning and such... but remember this plugin that I suggested long ago? http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/fun-mobarena-v0-94-4-98-become-a-mob-fighting-gladiator-1-5-2.19144/   we could also just have a seperate world which mods + admins can go creative with permission to build arenas, etc. for public to /warp to.

Yea, that mod can work, but thats not whats important atm. What we need to decide is the next step for the map itself. We need to choose what we are doing. Reuse the old map to draw in more people? Start completely fresh and hope some new members will find that appealing? We need a plan. Let's just decide the basics first, then we can worry about the details. And, other than the mob spawning, I dont really want creative spawning. The mob spawning will just give people something to do if they get bored with the peaceful side. It will also give clans (If we choose to implement them) a way to competitively take on other clans. 

The only creative spawning I would allow would be the one of a giant glass dome if we do the city in the wasteland bit, which I would really wanna see. I feel that would best serve the preferences we as a group have. It allows hardcore pvp, but also a safe zone for the less aggressive type. We can still use mcmmo in the wasteland to serve as an incentive to live there, but keep it plain in the city so that it isnt unevenly leveled (Those in the city would easily gather resources, and with the mcmmo skills it would result in an unfair amount. Those in the waste would get more resources, but die more often, are robbed, etc.) In my opinion, this setup would cover most of what we want. Hardcore pvp/peaceful world, clan area, and Ludi gets his close-knit community while also having a much more difficult mobs outside. If there is anything im missing, tell me and I think I can find a solution

we should just use the factions plugin.  It has built in everything we need. Semi-LWC for clans, unless you kill clan members enough, a safezone for building in the clans area, you can change a spawn/safe area, and then a wilderness with pvp, and warzone with pvp and no building still, which would be within a small ring around the safezone to make it look nice as far as the eye can see. Also, we can mark out the area using iron/gold/lapis/redstone/diamond blocks, each showing different areas to mark where the safezone ends, and new zone begins. This is so no one wanders out unknowingly, to be killed right there.

So i think we should start a new world with clans, pvp, stealing, etc. but have factions plugins so you can protect chests, but its still possible to take over clans and steal their stuff. We should prolly start it soon, or atleast start getting plugins and stuff decided like... now. Then we can have a day or two to build spawn. Nothing too fancy like we have done before, but something we can improve as we go.  Im going to make a new thread about plugin requests. Post all plugins youwant in there, and ludi you can add the essential stuff.  You dont really need a spawn protection thing with the factions plugin, because you can do it with that,

Personally in my opinion stealing freely amongst clans wouldn't be a good idea, if there was some way to only make stealing and PVP legal only if two clans declared war on eachother, that would be great, and this is just me probably but I think we are getting pretty complicated with all of this arena stuff, I am ok with a main city and all that and whatever other plugins you want to put in but a basic clan/faction warfare sounds OK to me, but I really dont care all that much at this point, just my opinion.

the factions plugin makes it so each person has a power level, and this power level adds from each player in the faction to create a clan power level. Killing a person raises power level, and dying lowers. Power level also rises back to its max (10) over a period of time. Also a minimum of -10.  If a clan;s power level were to get at, say, half its original value of all players combined, then their claimed land would be able to be broken by everyone with no consequence, and their chests would be able to be opened by anyone, while if the power level were at a good level, then no one but clan members could do these things.

Idk it doesn't sound right to me, not trying to be a downer or anything but I feel its kind of complicated, I really think a really simple clans plugin is all we need, but very few craftbukkit plugins are even updated to minecraft right now, so we have to see, or maybe we wont even use bukkit I guess that is mostly ludi's choice, but I guess whatever you guys all agree with I can live with.

I have had bad experiences with this plugin. My bro and I went on another server when ours was down, and it had this very plugin. We started our own clan and stuff, but we were soon discovered by a much larger and older clan. They spawn camped us until our power level was low, claimed the area we were spawning in, and that was that. Total bullshit. It gives advantage to large clans, and when someone tries to start a new one, they will be totally outnumbered and outmatched until they finally quit. I just dont see how it would work.

Also, I'm going to still push that city in the waste idea. I love it, and I think it would best serve all our needs. Honestly, I dont see whats wrong with it. We can divide it into a certain number of sections, and in each section is housed a different clan/empire. We can have an arena for easy-going, competitive play among the clans, or any two players. 

Just think about it, try it out, idc. Just dont brush this idea aside too quickly

Would you mind explaining the idea of the city a little better? I just have no idea what you mean by "city in the waste"

Go read some earlier posts, but the main thing is that its an area surrounded by a glass dome, or wall, or some type of barrier. On the inside, we have the peaceful version of the server, where players can build big fancy buildings without the worry of being griefed. On the outside, we can have a desert or frozen tundra with very little trees, little water, etc., to make it difficult to live

not sure really about that because if it was surrounded by a deserted landscape it would make clans 
not want to go so far to find better places to live, honestly a main city would be nice, but I think we can just make our clans wherever and I haven't really found a good clan plugin, I liked the simplicity of the one we used to use, not really sure what it was though, even though all it did was name you Leader or Representative or Member and tag you with the initials of your clan which is pretty much all that we need, and that is my basic opinion, I just am not sure because there are so few plugins updated to 1.5.2 right now, not even sure if any clan plugins are. I really don't know, just hope Ludi figures something out because I have no idea.

We've never used a clan plugin actually, what you are talking about was not strictly a plugin. I actually just manually made more than 50 permission groups in GroupManager using different plugins to make the clans. Whenever Someone founded a new clan I had to make like another 5 permission groups. Thats why I only allowed clans to be formed when they had more than 5 unofficial members, it would have been way too annoying to make 5 new custom permission groups each time one person said "I WANT TO MAKE A CLAN" It also would have been a big waste of data space too.

I could potentially write a plugin that does that more simply if we know 100% for sure thats how we want the clans to work. I've been itching to write some java for a good time now anyways, I just dont want to waste my time if we dont end up actually using it.

The only real reason i want the factions plugin is so we can have a way to have a chest protection, but still a way to get into the chests (Cuz stealing is my fav).  If we think of some way to have a chest protection, that there is a way to steal from still, then i would be happy with it.  

For the clans thing, i think you sohuld make a plugin like your old one, very simple tho, without any of the prestige tho.   /clan create <NAME> <TAG>  <COLOURS> (Seperated by spaces for different coloured tags.)  And build in a way to make it so when i can has ________ amount of people, they can have their claimed land protected.

I am 100% ok with that group clans thing you were doing ludi, maybe if there was some way to make it so clans at war with eachother (something they both confirm) can steal from eachother, griefing maybe not but I don't really know, but that sounds like an ok plan to me cause it would suck if random clans just went about stealing from allies or neutral clans to them.

Why dont we have four big empires? Like, red, blue, green, yellow, or whatever? That way, we dont have a bunch of small clans running around, claiming random areas as their own (Think about it, if we have a bunch of small-ass groups going around and staking a claim in every piece of land, then we would be forced to go farther out, ultimately destroying our close-knit community idea.). We can have 'unofficial' clans out in the wastes, where groups of players can get together and give themselves a nametag and colors, but nothing too extensive. Out in the wild, its a giant fucking free for all, and players can essentially do whatever the fuck they want. In the city, its more ordered and controlled. With this city thing, Im trying to appeal to the largest number of people possible by creating different areas. The wastes for hardcore pvp-ers, and the city for the more laid-back player. 

Also, someone brought up the fact that players will eventually run out of room in the city. True, but they can still go out into the wastes to gather some materials. Of course, they would be prone to attack and looting, but if they need to go diamond mining as opposed to buying it in the store, go for it. Essentially, the wastes and the city represent two different styles of living: Lawless and ordered. I feel this covers all the different aspects we want. 

The main point im trying to cover is a close-knit community. If we pull in players and immerse them in a fun and controlled environment where they see us and interact with us, they will be more inclined to stay. Then, we can get more extravagant and fancy. Don't try to jump into some big outrageous idea and cross your fingers that people will like it. Play it safe, rebuild our numbers, then experiment

Also, dirty says he wants to steal. That cant be done in the city. But you can definitely go out in the wastes and try to find other places and steal. The wastes will be the hardest place to live, but you get perks, and lots of them if you work hard at it, making you a very resourceful player.

I agree with the close knit community idea, but I really think our main city should be a few rules buildings, and a few other random buildings just so people can spawn there and stay for a while if they aren't in a clan yet. I would suggest a simple clan plugin, no stupid land claims, which eliminates little clans from claiming the shit out of our entire world, but some sort of chest protection for clans that aren't at war with each other, maybe it is too big of an order, but it would be cool if ludi could write up a plugin that could do this. That is pretty much my whole standpoint right now.